The Kansas and Roy Question[UPDATED]

UPDATE: William has an excellent piece on Roy and Kansas over at his blog, Quaker Fox.  I encourage you to head on over there and check it out.

As told by the respective coaches.

Kansas Coach Bill Self:

Well, you know, it is a big deal. But I don’t think it’s near as big a deal because Roy’s coaching against Kansas, I think it’s a much bigger deal to me personally because our team is participating in it. But fans will make a big deal out of it. And I said this yesterday, when people are upset that you leave — and I’ve gone through this myself and of course he went through it at a very high level — it’s a back-handed compliment because they didn’t want you to.

I’m sure he knows that and understands that and that’s the nature of the business. But, you know, at the core of all Kansas fans — and I’m not in touch with everybody, but at the core I would think everybody’s very proud of the time he spent here because he gave this place 15 years of excellence.

So I don’t think that — although I think feelings were hurt initially and all those things, but I think five years is enough time for people to let a few things go. And I think that’s certainly been the case here.

Roy Williams:

I gave some school, some basketball programs, some state, whatever you want to call it, and especially the players, 15 years of my heart, body and soul. So I’m never going to lose that. Some of the greatest memories in my life were at Kansas. I’m never going to lose that. I’m never going to lose their appreciation for basketball, their passion for basketball.

“I’ll always appreciate that and love that. Each and every year it gets different because the players that I left there are gone. We recruited Jeremy, but everybody else is gone. And we knew Darnell, he used to come up to games. We knew Darrell used to come up for games. But this is Bill’s team. This is the University of Kansas’s team without Roy Williams.

“I can put it to you this way: In my summer camp we have a lot of little kids running around and they’re instructed on the first day they can wear North Carolina stuff or they can wear Kansas stuff, but they can’t wear anybody else’s stuff.

“And that’s the way I’m always going to be. I’m going to be always be a huge Kansas fan. There were some things said or done that hurt at first, but time has a way of healing things and I am hopeful it will heal with some people that still may have some bad feelings.

“But the good news is it’s a wonderful Kansas team playing a wonderful North Carolina team on college basketball’s biggest stage. And I wish it would be Monday night as opposed to Saturday.”

Now these well thought out remarks by both coaches should put an end to any media discussion of Roy vs Kansas.  As I said earlier the only people that would make a huge deal about this were segments of the Kansas fan base.  And Roy indicates that Kansas will always be special to him and rightfully so since he did spend 15 years there and he built his career there before leaving for North Carolina.  And that is it.

Please move along.

Nothing to see here.

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43 Responses to The Kansas and Roy Question[UPDATED]

  1. Josh Bowling says:

    That will be the biggest talk in Saturday’s pregame and possible through the first half, and will definately enter in again after the game is decided. Some comments about the game itself will be sandwiched in-between.

  2. Jack says:

    “Now these well thought out remarks by both coaches should put an end to any media discussion of Roy vs Kansas.”

    You are an optimist. I’m just going to avoid reading any articles until the game is over, because they’ll all talk about it.

  3. Tar Heel Fan says:

    Tongue in cheek, my friend, tongue in cheek.

  4. Josh Bowling says:

    Kansas-Roy will be bigger than the game itself when the color commentators start the talk. I see only a few spots in the 2 hour period of play that they will comment on the game.

  5. william says:

    At least read my article, Josh, I can’t not take a stab at this.

    Question, how is Roy Williams like Sally Field? Read and find out:

    http://quakerfox.blogspot.com/

  6. Josh Bowling says:

    Here’s how it goes. Here are the commentator’s talking points and how to distribute the time on each topic.

    Kansas Roy-105 minutes
    UNC vs Kansas-15 minutes

  7. Josh Bowling says:

    Great post William! Amazing you have time for this site. You have likely laid the blueprint for the topic of discussion come Saturday night. You had better get this stuff trademarked before it’s used as public domain!

  8. william says:

    Thank you. I have been a huge Roy fan since that 1997 article.

  9. 52BigGameJames says:

    excellent piece william-done with the appropriate sensitivity towards the KU contingent, and an accurate (imo) psych analysis to wrap—good job bro!

  10. william says:

    How can you look away from a great trainwreck? Here’s an article about Kansans for Roy:

    http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/apr/01/taking_two_sides/

  11. 52BigGameJames says:

    from the comments section it’s clear this will go to the grave with many–shame really, as both schools SHOULD pull for one another, imo.

  12. william says:

    How about an online petition with fans of each school pledging to root for the winner on Saturday?

  13. Tarheel4real says:

    Excellent article William! I would pull for Kansas if the Heels lost to them- I feel generally amiable towards Kansas for a number of reasons, but mostly you just want the team that beats you to win it all, right?

  14. Asheville Heel says:

    On another note, ESPN, Fox Sports, etc… are reporting the Sean Sutton is out at OSU as coach validating the rumors that have been around since the Big 12 tournament. Supposedly, OSU will attempt to hire a “big name” coach to revive their program using Boone Pickens’ considerable wealth and influence within the athletic dept. there. The #1 candidate is reputed to be OSU alumni Bill Self. How’s that for timimg! This may become another distraction besides Ol’ Roy versus KU this week leading up to Saturday. This is errily like the UNC/Doherty/Williams storyline that played out during Kansas’s 2003 FF. What is not the same is that Self leaving Kansas for OSU would not be going from one elite program to another. However, with Pickens’ supposed offer to make the OSU position the highest paid bball coach in the country for the right candidate you never know.

  15. Tar Heel Fan says:

    I don’t think Pickens making it rain for the next coach is going to get Self to jump. I think he is perfectly happy at Kansas and money is not an issue though I could be wrong. The school this hurts is Indiana who is out their struggling to find a coach who can restore them to glory and now another suitor is on the market with an alleged blank check. Also, I saw ESPN is reporting that Dakich sent two starters packing for missing a meeting and then failing to show up to run at 6 AM for missing the meeting. The message board at indiana.scout.com is entertaining if you want to take a look.

    In terms of rooting for Kansas I think most UNC fans would do so anyway not only because Roy still loves Kansas but because speaking for myself I cannot give John Calipari and Memphis or UCLA so much as one clap of the hands.

  16. Josh Bowling says:

    Agreed THF. But one thing we have to think about. Kansas’ numbers as a program are starting to equate ours. Schools that I love to see lose are UCLA, Duke, Indiana, Kentucky and Kansas. I think 10 years down the road we will take back the wins column from Kentucky. But Duke and Kansas are knocking on our door. Kansas is only about 50 wins behind us. Let’s not root for them too hard!!!

  17. Tar Heel Fan says:

    UCLA getting a 12th title would be bad though and I dislike Calipari enough to never want to see him succeed for playing loose and fast with academic standards. It would take quite a feat to catchup 50 wins to I can live with a Jayhawk title should they knock off the Heels.

  18. william says:

    I have heard rumors of money like no other coach has received, ever, for there is oil in them thar plains, and for you younger guys, there is only one school in the Big 12 that truly cares about basketball besides Kansas and that is Oklahoma State. They have as many national titles as Kansas and had a coach just as famous as just about any other coach: Henry Iba, not to mention one of the greatest players off all time as an alumnus, Bob Kurland. Certainly not much of a step down in lore, considering Self is an alumnus and 30 Million Dollars may be twisting in the wind….

  19. Tar Heel Fan says:

    Self was at OSU? Did not know that….strike my previous comment or at the very least takes some credence off it 😉

  20. Josh Bowling says:

    I want UNC to be the alltime winning program in ncaa history. I see Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UCLA as being a threat to that. And not only do I want to be the most winning program, I want to have a good bit of distance between us and number 2 as well. So NO, I will not root for any team that is within reach of us.

  21. william says:

    It’s just one game, Josh. Maybe we can schedule some extra tournaments to make up for it.

  22. Josh Bowling says:

    THF, you might think that 50 wins is a big cushion, but we were ahead of Kentucky for a while, and yet they managed to overtake us. I don’t feel comfortable with a 50 win separation. Remember, Kansas’s conference isn’t as tough as ours. Our wins will be more difficult to achieve, as the 4th winningnest program is in our conference as well. Once we get about a 100 game differential, I can relax and know that UNC’s dominance may extend beyond my era.

  23. Josh Bowling says:

    I understand that William. I just don’t want to see any team that is within reach of our accomplishments to be as successful as UNC, that’s all.

  24. william says:

    It’s true. I never understood from the beginning, after losing Roy, why they signed a guy who had alread been at three different schools, two of them in Oklahoma and who was an Oklahoma State grad, instead of someone from Kansas. What is that saying about those who ignore history being doomed to repete it….

  25. Josh Bowling says:

    I take that 50 wins back. Kansas is 2, yes TWO wins behind us. Soon, we could be the 3rd winningest program, not the 2nd!

  26. Tar Heel Fan says:

    Being 3rd instead of 2nd all time I can live with. UCLA or Memphis bring up the rear of One Shining Moment I can do without.

  27. Josh Bowling says:

    We are 90 wins ahead of Duke and Kentucky is 49 wins ahead of us. So Kentucky must not view us as a threat, as it has already been established here that a 50 win margin is OK.

  28. william says:

    But we have four national titles to their two and like Dean says, all of those schools are including wins against the YMCA and JCC and things like that….

  29. Josh Bowling says:

    Memphis is not a powerhouse program. They are no where near being one, in terms of top ten colleges. Now I understand the reasoning for not wanting Calipari to succeed, but I look beyond that as there will be a school after these coaches leave, and where will UNC be at that point is what matters most to me.

  30. Josh Bowling says:

    I appreciate your tolerance for me on this issue!

  31. Jonathan Starsmore says:

    Kansas is much closer to us in the all-time wins count than 50 (where did that figure come from? I don’t think we’ve had that kind of cushion between us and Kansas since, like, ’98). As of today, the top three’s win-loss totals are:

    1. Kentucky 1966-621
    2. North Carolina 1950-698
    3. Kansas 1941-785

    UK has a 16-win cushion on UNC at the moment, but we’re only 9 wins ahead of Kansas. If UK stays mediocre, it’ll take UNC about 3 seasons to catch up, but it would only take one bad season by Carolina for KU to catch us for 2nd place.

    BTW, I got those totals by adding the figures listed in the 2006 UNC media guide (which had totals through the 2005-06 season) and then adding the results from the 06-07 and 07-08 seasons (07-08 isn’t yet over for us and KU, but I did add the W-L totals so far). Unless UNC’s media guide is in error (or UK/KU keep different totals due to disputes regarding wins they may have lost due to NCAA penalties), this should be an accurate up-to-date count.

  32. Josh Bowling says:

    Thanks Jonathan! Remember Kansas’s wins should come easier to them due to the relative weakness of their conference. In no way am I comfortable with a 9 win differential. So that is my reason for not cheering on Kansas too much.

  33. Jonathan Starsmore says:

    Well, conference strength is cyclical — everybody knows the ACC of today is not as strong as it was back in 2005, for example. The Big 12 is usually weaker than the ACC, true, but that could change in the future — all it takes is better recruiting and better coaching across the board, and I don’t think any of us can safely say that that won’t happen in the Big 12. I think both Carolina and Kansas have gotten as close to Kentucky as things are now much more because we had good teams than because of relative conference strength.

    The all-time wins thing makes for good trivia and discussion of the best college hoops programs historically, but I think the only fanbase that REALLY cares about it is Kentucky. UK fans need the lead in all-time wins to back up their assertion that they’re a better choice than UCLA for #1 program all-time (since they have 4 fewer championships than UCLA and won’t be catching up there any time soon). For UNC and KU fans, the wins are a point of pride, certainly, but I really don’t think we care about it as much as UK fans do.

  34. rbl says:

    I agree with all those who root for Kansas. While the Jayhawks have some hard feeling about Roy’s departure, let’s not forget the strong KU-UNC connection that began with Dean. Furthermore, many of us felt the same when Mack Brown left for Texas.

    If the Davidson game is indicative of KU, I feel we can take them. KU fans no doubt want us badly, but i suspect Self will downplay this with his team. Revenge can be self (no pun intended)-destructive, and I imagine he wants to focus on more positive emotions.

    The key for Carolina is Ellington and Green. I don’t believe either made a field goal in the second half against Louisville, and if this happens in the Final Four, we’ll be going home.

  35. Jonathan Starsmore says:

    Oh and for giggles, here are spots 4-6:

    4. Dook 1846-808
    5. Syracuse 1725-796
    6. Dook’s Late-Season Whipping Boy (St. John’s) 1716-851

    St. John’s was in 5th for a long time, but Syracuse finally managed to pass them last year. The Johnnies remain the highest team on the list without an NCAA championship (I didn’t use the more ambiguous “national championship” phrasing because they do have a Helms Foundation title).

  36. Kris Goering says:

    I can’t wait for this game . KU fans have been waiting for 5 years to lay a beat down on Roy’s boys. Can’t wait, “Rock Chalk Jayhawk”

  37. TxTarheel says:

    Self should truly consider what he gains by switching to OSU. Pickens will most likely meddle with the athletic department there for years to come, based on the sizable gift (& also the fact that HIS investment firm manages those funds on behalf of the university). Self will be on the losing end in stepping away from Kansas, if he were to consider that.

    Right now I really don’t care about all-time wins, I care about beating KU this weekend and playing for a title on Monday night.

  38. william says:

    Well, as a lawyer, let me point out that Self never says that he won’t take the job. He says that he would strongly recommend that they look elsewhere and they will respond by strongly recommending that he accept the $30,000, 000. Kansas must be jinxed to have this happen a second time:

    http://cjonline.com/stories/040108/bre_selfosu.shtml

  39. Mike Little says:

    i doubt roy even turns on the tv or reads a paper. if asked, i hope he gets so frustrated he says “i don’t give a x!?# about kansas. i really don’t think it will be a factor. self doesn’t care. none of the players were recruited by roy. they just want to win the game. if anything, the unc players are going to open up a kan of whoop ass for their coach.

    check out the post on http://www.littlebluealien.com for a laugh a dukes expense!

  40. Asheville Heel says:

    Two things: 1) isn’t it ironic that a major reason that KU is so close behind us in wins is that Roy spent 15 years there with the best winning percentage in the nation during that time. And, 2) no matter what Self or anyone else says, the Kansas players are very aware that their fans want them to beat us down very badly. I used to be of the opinion that Kansas fans were fairly objective and classy compared to many of the fan-bases out there. However, some of the stuff that is going on over this game is starting to remind me of the Dookies!

  41. Josh Bowling says:

    TxTarheel. Try for one second to extend your knowledge of UNC history beyond your age. We, as fans, will come and go. What needs to continue on is the legacy of UNC being the top program in the NCAA. Right now all that should matter is beating Kansas and winning a title. So that is no philisophical revelation. We ALL know that. Sliding down the list of all time wins will in no way help us out in attempting to claim the top spot in NCAA history.

  42. uncgirl50 says:

    Ugh I wish everyone will just leave it ALONE! That is past. This is present. There is no significance WHATSOEVER!

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