If you were watching the early part of the national title game last night you saw Roy at the game wearing a Jayhawk decal on his chest. Little did Roy know, because he does not go on the internet is it immediately set off a firestorm at Inside Carolina with people saying some of the absolute dumbest things you could possibly say. It was suggest that Tyler Hansbrough should go ahead and leave because of it or even that Roy should leave UNC. Needless to say abject stupidity takes many forms.
The question is whether this is actually a problem? I suppose that depends on your perspective. For myself I really had no feelings on it. Perhaps that is my even keel mode of operation showing but it just struck me as something that I really should not get all that concerned about because I just do not think it impacts anything. I do not think he is less loyal to UNC by doing it nor do I think it affects his ability to continually make UNC the best basketball program in the nation. Unlike a caller on 850 this morning who apparently knows nothing about recruiting, I do not think this is going to tip some five star recruit to choose Kansas over North Carolina. And I think we all know that Roy shares a great relationship with all his current players so I doubt they will have an issue with it either though the timing was probably not the best in the world given the events of Saturday night.
The only argument I have heard that comes to close to holding liquid is that Roy is the head coach at UNC and paid to promote UNC at every juncture. He was seen on television promoting another school so obviously some sensibilities might be bruised here. In the final analysis the logo was at worst unnecessary. Anyone who has watched Roy enough knows he is a passionate guy and his love for Kansas probably is only a slight tick below his love for UNC. For some Tar Heel fans the references to Kansas have never sat well with them and this only adds to that particular gripe.
For me, I just do not think those sort of things matter. Roy came back to UNC the 2nd time he was asked, cleaned up Matt Doherty’s mess and won a title four years after the team was 8-20. Since then he has taken a team full of freshman to a 2nd place finish in the ACC, won 30 games and ACC Championships in back-to-back seasons, gone to the Final Four and recruited a slew of good players from now until 2010. The product on the court has been exciting and the basketball program is operating at peak levels for the first time since Dean Smith was running the show in the mid-90s. This is all to say that his body of work really serves to cover minor breaches in etiquette like this one. Honestly, take a look around at where UNC basketball is at right now and people are getting pissed off over this? Or to quote the character Admiral Fitzwallace from The West Wing:
“I got some honest to God battles to fight, I don’t have time for the cosmetic ones.”
Update: I did take the liberty of fixing the photo to make people feel better.
Tar Heel Fan 
Things like this make me hate the internet. It reminds me how many lunatics there are in the world.
To be honest, I say, “Good for you, Roy.” Loyalty is a shamefully lost trait in today’s society. I wish more people would remember and honor, more openly, those who helped them get where they are.
Well put THF. It was unnecessary and probably wouldn’t be getting so much attention had we lost to them last weekend, as opposed to two days before he wore it. Many of us UNC fans are still in the first few stages of grief and not quite to acceptance just yet.
I agree that Williams is a great coach. The entire UNC team was wonderful this year! I was very hurt to see him supporting another team. I can’t see any other Head Coach Sporting another teams logo – can you see the Duke coach wearing a Tarheel Sticker? I didn’t think so! Yes I’m mad, as Trivial as it may seem to some people it was not to me. I think it spoke tons about his character and where his loyalty lies.
Maybe is a Duke coach spent his first 15 years as the UNC head coach he would! Otherwise, that is a complete non-sequitur. And yes, it does speak to Roy’s character… it says he is a more caring and compassionate person than most.
Haha, nice edit… maybe you should photoshop K’s head over Roy’s so we can get the Dukies all fired up too!! Or maybe they already have enough drama to deal with… 😉
[…] ass hat. We out-wanted them 37-31. This can’t be Andrew Jones, can it? Can there really be controversy about Roy Williams wearing a Kansas sticker? When Williams finally accepted the job here, he […]
It was a non-issue for me. We all know Roy loves Kansas, spent 15 years there, etc. But we also all know where his bread is buttered- only national championship of his career at his alma mater. Unless UNC fires him, he’ll spend the rest of his career attaining more national titles for us. This will have zero impact on recruiting or his team, I believe. Agreed, it was unnecessary and he probably should have gone sticker-less, but harmless. Now maybe Self will take the $6M bait and Kansas fans will have someone else to hate.
Actually I was on the Kansas message board last night and because they beat Roy and finally won a title, they are done hating on Roy.
Rumor has it that T. Boone will likely up the ante to $10M, which he will then invest for him and double over the next 3 years (i.e. the $165M gift he gave to OSU that is now worth north of $300M…)
Thank goodness. And thanks for a fantastic blog this season THF!
Say what you will, I will never feel the same about him. I know it’s trivial but I’m not the only one it bothered. If it didn’t bother you that’s fine. It bothered me when I kept reading what a soft spot he had for Kansas before the game. I think he coached differently against Kansas. I’m happy though that one of his teams won, mine lost. As a true Tarheel fan I’m not happy and I wasn’t pulling for Kansas. I support one team UNC! Never anyone else. I don’t even get paid to do that…
I’m still with C. Michael on this, I think it was a sportsmanlike thing to do for someone in a pretty mercenary profession. And I can’t possibly imagine what harm it could do to the program. But I’ve talked to a number of my good friends this morning who couldn’t disagree with me more, so to each their own.
So if there’s a next time Roy, maybe wear a UNC ball cap to clear things up. But on the whole, I guess it doesn’t ruin a 36-3 Final Four season for me.
PS – nice full page ad in the NY Times today with UNC’s 2007 Nobel Prize winner in a Hansborough jersey.
Hey the ball cap would have been all he needed! Carolina Blue would have been good!
M. Hundley,
I’m ashamed to hear that I’m not a “true Tarheel fan.” I know Coach Williams will be sad to hear he’s lost you. Should we make an offer to Matt Doherty or do you have someone else in mind (hopefully another HoF coach) in mind to replace Ol’ Roy?
Lighten up, Francis.
Good for Roy. Why would he not be rooting for Kansas?
M.Hundley,
The last I checked his true loyalties lie in Chapel Hill and wearing a sticker while watching his former team of 15 years is not going to change that.
[…] Update: More from THF […]
I am still very skeptical about us playing at a different level all year long and the one game we play against Kansas is a flop..THAT is not normal…call it a coincidence..but I think Roy did it on purpose…could Roy control the players? No..but he can certainly put ideas in their head that won’t make them play as well.
People who question Roy’s loyalties should consider the following: when Roy LEFT Kansas for UNC, it was, for all intents and purposes, a lateral move. Take into consideration the fact that Roy was his own legend at Kansas and had built a machine that was going to average at least 27 wins a year for the next decade and a half, and the fact that UNC was in relative disarray; one could very easily view the move as a DOWNGRADE, professionally. He left KU for UNC because he has an UNDYING and UNPARALLELED love for all things North Carolina.
Robin.
How long have you been a UNC fan? I have seen UNC show up at a Final Four and play at a completely different crappy level as compared to the rest of the season under three different coaches now. And I came within two mouse clicks of dumping you whole comment for suggesting Roy undermined his own team because they were playing Kansas. Geez, my brain hurts just reading that.
Robin,
I think I saw Roy on the grassy knoll in Dallas…
Seriously though, I don’t agree that the KU game was the only game they didn’t show up for. They didn’t show up for UMd, and had to come back from behind in at least a couple other games (Clemson, BC, etc.) this season. Being down 40-12 was just too much, though it’s still amazing they cut it to 56-50.
C’mon people. Let’s move on to more important worries, like who’s staying.
Oh I think he was rooting for them all along. I didn’t want to come right and say it like Robin did but I feel the same. I will never not be a UNC fan – I don’t have to like what I seen either. Coaches come and go – and he will soon go. Maybe even back to Kansas he loves them so. I support that team of players and I hope they didn’t think anything about their coach suppoting Kansas! I’m sure they we’re fine with it..
It really would be interesting to know how the team feels today.
The VT game in the ACCT was about the same level of play, too.
I think the team feels that some of there “fans” are completely unhinged…
I think they will all stay. I hope so anyway! Always next year! Maybe we could have a repeat of this final 4 .
“Their” not “there”.
Man, this conversation is making me dumber… 😉
M.Hundley,
Roy has taken full blame for the team not being ready and everyone still misses out on the fact that Kansas played extremely well to start that game. If you honestly believe that Roy threw the game because he wanted Kansas to win then please leave and do not come back, I do not have time for such abject stupidity.
Its all in good fun. It has actually made me feel better. LOL
You have a strange idea of fun. Glad you feel better though. I suppose it’s better to feel good than to look good.
I don’t think he threw the game! I think he was afraid to coach the way he had been not wanting to make anyone even madder at Kansas. It was up to the players but they could have had more time outs called and lots more regrouping!! That’s the coaches call..
Santiago, indeed my friend… let us move on. I’m already searching the web for possible departures this morning. So far, the only significant announcement is IU’s freshman and conference POY. No news is good news on the Carolina front. We’ll see what the next couple of days bring our way.
And Robin… are you kidding me?
no..They did show up for Maryland..and if you knew the situation, you would know that they played the maryland with little sleep and no practice. If you remember they had to take a bus back from georgia tech because of an ice storm and didn’t get back inot chapel hill until early early thursday morning which gave them no time to sleep before classes…so they went into saturdays game against maryland gassed yet still came within a shot of winning…They were still a great team…The dook game came right after lawson got injured and Q was thrown into unfamiliar territory…The Kansas game came at the peak of our game…15 game winning streak…playing tough close games all year long still with that edge to win…
The Kansas game makes no sense….I like what some of the players said…it’s like they were high school kids who didn’t know how to play…
I still fail to understand how a 19-20 year old kid cannot have intensity for a final four game
I don’t have a problem with it. That’s just Roy, he’s a nice guy and wants to show respect. I do have a problem with him squandering Tyler’s talent, and not having anyone who could create their own shot.
I’ve read this blog for quite some time, but I’ve sat in the so-called “silent majority.” So, before I start, I want to praise THF for his efforts. This has been one of the most insightful websites that I’ve ever ran across (both from the author and the commenters), and it is something that I enjoy on a daily basis. So, kudos to THF for his hard work.
My opinions on “stickergate” (and they’re simply how I, as a fan and alum, feel — it is what it is):
As a human being, I understand why Roy was there and why he wore the sticker. He gave everything to Kansas for 15 years, and to think you can turn that off like a light switch is a little unreasonable. His loyalty is something to be admired.
As a fan, I’m sad, disappointed, and a little mad. Although I understand your reasons, you are now “our” head coach. With the absolutely brutal loss less than 48 hours old, you are now sitting with the putative enemy and wearing their emblem. You have to realize what some people will think about this, and you must realize that it will, at the very least, rub people the wrong way. At the very least, for me, it makes the pain of Saturday night a little worse, not better. A Jayhawk sticker over your heart may make you feel better, but it does nothing for my aching heart. If you want to cheer Kansas, fine, I understand that completely — but do it in private, please.
As a PR person, I would say to Roy “what are you thinking?” It simply looks bad to appear in the crowd wearing that sticker, and it looks worse to come on CBS at halftime and glow over Kansas (while that damned beak pokes out from under your jacket). It may have appeased your former constituents, but it sure as heck has not pleased your current constituents (I think a 16 page — and growing — thread on IC confirms that). You now represent UNC, and every action you take will be scrutinized. Although a sticker or your Kansas support might not seem to be a big deal, it has ticked off a lot of people, and it’s simply provided cannon fodder for everybody else.
In the end, I think my ramblings have underscored the fact that I’m still quite discombobulated after Saturday night, and I’m not really sure how to set things right again other than to let it be. I’ll get over all of this sooner rather than later (usually I just wake up one day and say “frak it, I’ve got better things to do than mope around”), but seeing Roy cheer on the team that killed us doesn’t really help matters (at least for me).
To those who don’t agree with what I’m feeling and think I should grow up, I understand (and, in the end, you’re probably right; we all have more to worry about than a sticker). But those are my feelings, right or wrong. Thanks for reading…and let’s hope that we never have to go through a Saturday night like that ever again.
olympic,
While I don’t completely agree with your opinion, I think it is easily the most thoughtful and eloquent statement of displeasure I have read. Thanks.
I agree with C.Michael – believe it or not. I felt like I needed to say Amen after.
Robin,
Do you recall what happened during the 1st of the Michigan State game in 2005? UNC fell behind early and trailed at the half. Granted this was worse but everyone wants to blame Roy for the 40-12 part of the game and give him zero credit for the 38-14 run UNC had after that.
Robin,
I was chalking (sorry to use that term) the UMd game up to the Terps bringing it as much as UNC not. Kind of like Saturday’s game. I specifically did not mention the first Duke game as an off game for the reason you brought up. All streaks come to an end (except hopefully the Clemson one) and all hot teams cool off a bit.
“I still fail to understand how a 19-20 year old kid cannot have intensity for a final four game” — Are you kidding me? Let’s see, IIRC there’s 1995 against Arkansas, 1998 against Utah, just to name a couple.
So, was it the coach’s fault, or the players fault? Now I’m confused as to who put in the fix.
olympicboy,
Yes and I do get some people might be upset and that is fine as long as it is a reasonable position such as “He represents UNC now” not “He loves Kansas more than UNC and was glad we lost on Sat so he could get back in the good graces of people in Lawrence.”
Actually Santiago, UNC led at halftime of the Arkansas game in 1995 and would have been up seven instead of four had that tubby fellow hot made a shot from halfcourt. It was the 2nd half of that game UNC played like crap. 1997 and 1998 as well as 1991 were similar to Saturday, the score was not as bad though.
Scotty “freaking” Thurman… grrr!!! 😉
THF you are right. It was great. I think everyone is just looking for the answer to why we lost?? I know myself I just felt this was the year! ACC and NCAA Champs! You also have to know I am married to a die-hard Duke Fan that has now turned my children! So when UNC beat Duke you can’t know how great it was! I really wanted this year to be the one! No excuses we lost but can’t we try to blame someone. At least it wasn’t Duke!
I agree with Olympicboy. I have no doubts about Roy’s competitiveness, so I know he was doing everything he knew how to win on Saturday. I also want to avoid trumped up message board arguments over non-issues. But Roy was about as tonedeaf to the feelings of us fans as he could be with that dumb sticker. Wouldn’t anyone in his position just look at that thing before he put it on and say, “I love Kansas but I can’t wear that.”
THF,
My IIRC was incorrect. But, my point was that in 1995 those “19-20 year old kid”s still lacked “intensity for [all of] a final four game.” Thanks for the correction.
Moving on…So, CM, was that “tubby” kid from Arkansas name Scotty Thurman? I had forgotten about him until I saw the Indiana game at the RBC, where IU had a player with a similar physique. It reminded me of Woody Durham’s funniest line ever. He said that the Arkansas had hired a dietician to help him with his weight, but he looked like he ate him.
That would be the one. Between him, Corlis Williamson, and Oliver Miller, Arkansas had a pretty good run of fatties!!
Nope. Dwight Stewart. Oliver Miller was on the 1993 team UNC beat. I actually found a YouTube of the final 30 seconds of the half. UNC was up seven and Williamson traveled giving the ball to the Heels with 3.5 seconds left. UNC tries to throw the ball all the way down but it misses everyone, gets picked up by a Arkansas player who tosses it to Stewart and he does the unthinkable. I remember thinking at the time: We are going to lose this game.
Here’s my thing. Roy was put in a total lose-lose situation. If he hadn’t shown some sort of support, then he’d be lambasted by every sports reporter between here and the rockies for being a sore loser who’s bitter at his old team. But of course, since he did show support, he’s getting grief from a lot of our fellow Tar Heels. I understand both sides, and I’ll be honest, it stung me a little. But I trust Roy and I’m not holding it against him, because I know Carolina is still his top priority.
Besides, how can you blame a guy for supporting a school that gave him his first head coaching gig? Like I said, I think this was a lose-lose for him, and I think we, as Carolina fans, should back him up, since apparently he’s not going to get support from anywhere else.
Oh wow, you’re right. Totally forgot (or tried to forget) about him. I thought the same thing when he made that shot…
Also, didn’t mean to to imply Big O was on the same team, just the overall run during the early 90’s. Actually, given their style of play, it is amazing that so many of then were “fat”.
Speaking of which…did you see the kid Memphis had who was along the same lines?
Pierre Niles. Yeah he’s pretty ginormous…
http://gotigersgo.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/niles_pierre00.html
THF,
I watched that Arkansas game in the bar of the old fire station in downtown Greensboro. I remember thinking the exact same thing.
So in a phenomenon yet unexplained by science at singular moment 13 years ago all UNC fans had the exact same thought….intriguing.
Just goes to show there is a deeper meaning to being a UNC fan than just rooting for a team!
People who can’t get their head around this are either thick or not North Carolina basketball supporters. Neither are worth serious consideration.
THF-the doldrums of Final Four misfortune. Pat Sullivan was the guy responsible for the throw. The lasting image that I have of Pat is the photo of him in SI chasing down a loose ball in the epic comeback against Florida State, 1993.
I am glad to hear the Jayhawks fanbase are done (allegedly) hating on Roy. I was telling a friend today that their recent championship may also allow them to reflect fondly over the 1988-2008 years (bookended with titles); specifically, the man who catapulted that program into uncharted waters. I believe that Roy needed to be there in support of Kansas. Anyways, a this is a non-issue once the talk shifts to the stellar recruiting work that he and the staff have been doing. Are we ready for that yet?
It bothers me with the sticker,not in a way that he is downplaying his role at UNC. But enough of the Kansas love affair he left that job and the players are not his or of his choosing. Wonder how my boss or all of yours would feel if we gushed all the time about our previous job and showed it on national T.V.
Roy didn’t throw the game. Roy tried his best to beat Kansas. But I have to think for the Tarheel players sake it was a stupid thing to do. Anyone think Tyler enjoyed watching Roy sit there with a Kansas decal on his shirt? Anyone think Ty Lawson, who was made by the Kansas guards to look like a middle school player, enjoyed Roy sitting there with a Kansas decal on his shirt? It wasn’t a crime, it was just sort of a bizarre, attention-grabbing, stupid thing to do. And then life goes on………..
I am just unhinged(which I believe someone said before). Two years in a row and the unbelievable happens? I am sitting here trying to decide whether this year was worse than last year..I mean at least this year we never led in the game and we were still making shots at the end of the game.
Would you rather Roy be in bed with UNC and have a Kansas sticker on, or in bed with Kansas and have a UNC sticker on? Huh, huh? Crash Davis, anyone?
Amen to that, Seth.
Though, ultimately, I’d rather Bill Self be sitting in the stands wearing a UNC sticker while Roy cut down the nets after leading us title #5.
By the way, what exactly happens in Jayhawk nation IF Self leaves for Okla. State?
Dan,
That Okla State job could be entertaining for a while. Rumor has it if Self turns them down then Billy Gillespie is next on the list which would seen the UK fan base off the deep end.
So the question arises: If (and it’s a big if) Self were to leave for Lawrence? Would the “Roy hate” suddenly become “Self hate”?
Not as much because (1) Self did not turn down the job once and say he would there forever and (2) They won a title with Self making them less inclined to be angry at him.
Then again who I am kidding, some in the UNC fan base is ready to throw Roy under the bus for wearing a sticker with a red and blue chicken on it, no telling what the KU fans would say about Self. Probably call him Bill Self-ish.
This is maddening. It is perfectly reasonable for a basketball fan (which I’m sure Roy is) to pull for more than one team. Seriously, was anybody from central NC NOT pulling for Davidson in the tourney? Most Carolina fans I know were ecstatic about Davidson’s performance because they respect the program, the school, and want to see a local team do well. That doesn’t mean that aren’t born-and-bred Tar Heels, that means that they love the game and want to see other teams succeed. That also doesn’t mean that they didn’t want us to beat Davidson in the season opener…quite the opposite.
Its not a matter of divided loyalty. Roy is competitive, Roy wants to win, and Roy would have loved beating Kansas. But the team, as a team, failed to do so (we’ve all seen the team struggle to score from the half-court offense all year long, and it finally caught up with them).
Carolina and Kansas have an unusual relationship. We’ve shared coaches, we have stupidly random connections, and yet we’ve never played each other enough to create an out of conference rivalry. I don’t want any team to beat us, but by God, if someone is going to do it, I’d rather it be Kansas. Keep it classy, Roy, keep it classy.
No..better yet..if any team beats us…Let carolina beat Carolina..which is exactly what they did. Even down by 28 in the first half…we came to within 4 and could have pulled away. Carolina beat Carolina.
Maddening just because someone disagrees with you? Roy is a great guy, a great coach, a classy guy, but he’s human and can do stupid things. We just disagree. I think out of respect for his players, who at the time were feeling about as bad as they possibly could, Roy didn’t have to be so cute and wear that stupid Kansas decal. Not a crime, but stupid, in my humble opinion. Ask our players how they felt about it.
I’m sure that picture has a lot of dookies and state fans talking and laughing at us right now but it’s just a picture and these narrow minded jerks need to stop reading into things. Maybe it wasn’t the smartest thing to do but people just need to get over it. His loyalty will always lie with UNC!!!!!
I have gotten a good laugh at seeing how everyone here has “rationalized” and “justified” Williams wearing a Kansas sticker to show support for that team. It’s amazing to me how far some “fans” will go.
Let me say up front that I’m a Carolina grad and a big fan.
But I was quite miffed at seeing him in the stands with that sticker.
Now many say that it just showed his love for a team he once coached. That’s fine. But to blatantly show up just two days after that very same team demolished the Heels and show off his Jayhawk sticker? No way. Uncool at the very least.
That doesn’t mean he is supposed to hate Kansas. It just means that you don’t rub your love for Kansas in every Tar Heel’s face, not to mention the team members who may have been watching the game, at such a sensitive time.
Williams could have supported Kansas just as easily by being in the stands, dressed in Carolina Blue with a Carolina logo, and cheering for the team. As Adam said above, we all cheer for other teams at times. But, we aren’t the coach. We aren’t the team’s and school’s representative. And we probably don’t put on a hat or wear a sticker showing support for that other team. We just cheer them on.
I can hear the players now when they saw Williams on TV – “Hey, isn’t that our coach? No. Must not be. He’s not wearing anything Carolina Blue. He’s wearing a Kansas sticker. Must be his twin.”
Or, perhaps they didn’t say anything. Just felt uncertain, if not betrayed.
Everyone here can rationalize all they want. But that will never change the fact that Williams made a huge gaff, and on national TV at that. You can bet he, and we, will hear about that throughout the next season. Can you see all the Dookies wearing Kansas shirts at our next game against them?
I, for one, am extremely disappointed. Williams action left me with many questions.
Howard
I’m sure we won’t see Joe Torre wearing a Yankees cap and/or jacket sitting in the stands in the Bronx this October while doing interviews IF the Yanks even make it that far.
Bad move by Roy – he can root for whoever he wants but by doing it in such a public way especially given the timing of Saturday’s loss is plain wrong. He had nothing to gain unless he wants the KU job back if Self leaves for Okla St.
“I’m sure that picture has a lot of dookies and state fans talking and laughing at us right now but it’s just a picture and these narrow minded jerks need to stop reading into things”
NOT TRUE. Dookies aren’t laughing at you for Roy’s move at all. I’m a so-called dookie three times over (BA, MA, PHD). I’m crazy about Carolina basketball because that’s how i grew up. Most of us want Carolina to win every game they play unless they’re playing us.
As for Roy, staying in Texas to support Kansas was the absolute right thing to do. anyone who thinks he was secretly hoping unc would lose to kansas is a complete idiot. He never won a championship at kansas. he leaves and they win? that doesn’t exactly make him look like coach of the year, so OF COURSE it killed him to lose to Kansas, but because he’s an excellent role model and a good coach, he stayed to pull for the team and the coach that were about to do what he couldn’t. That’s amazing sportsmanship. The Jayhawk was a bit much. I think he could have made the statement without it, but he wanted the gesture to look sincere. These guys felt totally abandoned by him. He wanted to make amends. What is wrong in Tarheel land when that’s a problem for you? You can’t honestly think that he didnt discuss this with his players? Of course he did. They all knew and were prepared for Roy’s television support. You guys have a flipping awesome coach, and you ought to stop bellyaching. to be in the final four so soon after an entire championship team takes off is an incredible feat. UNC had a freakishly bad game. It happens. It sucked but it happened. Get over it.
As for the person who said the Duke Coach would never wear a tarheel logo–first of all, K never coached at unc so it’s already a bad comparison. Second you’re wrong. When Duke played UNC the second time, all of Cameron indoor stadium wore Carolina Blue to show solidarity with UNC over the death of their president. More than a hundred duke students volunteered for 10 hours cutting and making all the ribbons to pass out at the game. There’s more toUNC and Roy W illiams than one loss to Kansas. Roy stepped up, and i’m sure his players supported him. why can’t you?
You spent too much time in the library Heather if you think Duke fans don’t think Roy’s attire was hilarious. Roy gave State and Duke fans enough fuel for laughter to last at least a decade. You’ve also never played basketball at that level, and been completely devastated on the court as Carolina was by Kansas, and then have your coach wearing their emblem two nights later. Your PhD obviously wasn’t in Psych.
Well the dook and state fans I know have already rubbed it in my face so many times I am tired of hearing about it.
uhhh, chris, duke went out in the 1st round last year and the 2nd round this year. the coach is wearing USA basketball logos most of the year. if you don’t think duke knows the irritation of the conflicted coach affiliation, then you haven’t spent enough time in the library. 2001 was a long long time ago. coaching other teams and doing ridiculously pompous amex commercials feels pretty devestating when you’re team nearly bows out to Belmont. There’s nothing wrong with my psychology. all i’m saying is it’s not like Roy’s not producing, and it’s not like the players weren’t prepared for it.
btw, i never said duke fans wouldn’t capitalize on the jayhawk-wearing incident. just that you can bet Roy gets respect not mockery from the university down the road. until tip-off in Cameron, then the, yes, the jayhawk is fair game….
Thanks, Heather, for that scintillatingly insightful view from the Duke side………
alright alright i’m leaving. i made a grammar typo anyway so i’m waiting to get reamed on that. If you read my post, you’d see that i mostly agreed with you Chris. i said it was a bit much and to move on just like you did and i said roy really wanted unc to beat kansas. i only chimed in to say no not all duke fans were ridiculing carolina. The fact that you had to resort to sarcasm and personal slights just because i’m a duke grad–even though i’m a huge unc fan–is sort of lame. but whatever, i shouldn’t be here so sorry for weighing in.
THAT JAYHAWK STICKER IS TEARING US APART!!!!
I don’t think Roy necesarily wanted UNC to beat Kansas. I don’t think any of the players wanted to beat Kansas..as evident in the way they played.
Heather, ALMOST everyone in Cameron wore Carolina blue. Didn’t see K or his staff wearing the ribbons the students (admirably) worked so hard to put together.
I’m OK with the Jayhawk sticker. If it had been a Blue Devil, well, there you have a different matter altogether.
The fact Kansas played UNC well in both the 1991 and 1993 Final Fours should put to rest any notion that Roy has trouble going against teams he has long standing relationships with.
Robin,
Why in the name of all that’s holy, good and pure, wouldn’t Roy want to beat Kansas? Did you see the dude after the game? He was on the verge of suicide. And don’t even TRY and say that the players didn’t want it. EVERYONE knows Tyler would sooner wear duke blue than just roll over and lose. The guys may not have put out their best effort, but you cannot tell me that they just didn’t want to win.
Williams is a stand up coach. It shows he’s a better person than most by wearing that Kansas logo. Pride aside, it was a slap in the face to Carolina fans. I understand he was trying to be a bigger person than most rabid fans but he should have at least worn some Carolina blue. This is especially true after all the pathetic haters gleefully call the Heels overrated for allowing Kansas to jump on them. It’s annoying to listen to the rantings of washed up fans. Although, that’s the life of a Tarheel. We have to hear this crap whenever we don’t win a national championship even if we advance far in the tournament. It’s crazy. lol
This, to me, is a non-issue.
What Roy did was extremely classy, in my opinion. He coached there for 15 years! I would think that it would be a little odd if he at least didn’t show SOME support for KU.
I’ve been hard on Roy since he was at KU because I thought he coached differently in bigger games and couldn’t win the big one. A few people here disagreed with me on this forum because I said I thought the loss to KU had a lot to do with coaching and preparation.
Even though I’m hard on Roy as a coach, I can never be hard on him for being a sportsman and a true gentleman. Even my dad and my borther (diehard UVa fans-ask me how I got in that family) gained a lot of respect for Roy when they saw him with David Padgett after the Louisville game. That’s special. If you saw that, then I think you would understand Roy Williams the MAN, not just the coach.
We as fans have a tendency to get our underwear in a bunch (see my above examples on why I’m hard on Roy as a coach) but I think we forget at times there is a human side to players and coaches rather than just the sports side we get to see on TV.
Roy got criticized for this same garbage when he was the head coach at Kansas. In his 1993 post game he said he hurt like heck for his team, but if KU fans didn’t think he would be rooting like the dickens for Carolina on Monday night, then they didn’t know anything about Roy Williams.
Well, Roy Williams is now the head coach of Carolina and we should be understanding and commend him for his love of KU. He spent 15 years there.
This is a total non-issue. And the Carolina fans who have a problem with it need to GET A LIFE!
I have no problems with Roy at all. With him at the helm, we will be in the sweet 16’s, Elite 8’s, and Final Fours every year. And we will also finish in the top 3 in the ACC every year as well. We will also get top prospects with every scholarship we offer. With THAT being said, I am worried about how OUR players feel about this. Like you said CHRIS, they may not like it, and THAT is who I am worried about!
HE SHOULD NOT HAVE GONE TO THE GAME!!!!!!!
Roy showed tremendous disloyalty to UNC by not going to recruit some stud to beat out Deon in 2015! He only came to UNC to win his guaranteed NC by the trophy players that Matt Doherty stocked for him. Matt really wasn’t forced out, he resigned so Roy could come back because he could never win with players he recruited hiomself. Marvin Williams almost cost us the NC in 2005!
And he purposely recruited lousy players so Kansas (the team he has continued to pour his heart and soul to and even helped secretly recruit Brandon Rush and Steven Jackson to beat us) would finally win the NC. And the sticker is the secret sign. he enlisted Larry Brown to go to the Kansas practice and tell them our secrets . . . that Deon and Alex would be ineffective and we would not be able to hit from the outside. If Dean were still our coach we would never lose by poor shooting night.
And Roy probably bought the KoolAid that K gives his players which caused them to swoon! Underneath the anguished and pained look on the sideline on Saturday night, he was really smiling. He purposely held his time outs because as any Billy Packer fan knows, if he had called a time out we would never have gone down by double figures.
This ridiculous CRAP that I just peddled shows the hype by which too many fans follow the game. And it is just a game – played by young men who are student athletes. Roy wearing a Jayhawk sticker shows everyone that it is just a game. When his team is not playing, he can root for anyone he wants without any affect on fans. Period.
I think it was a way for Roy to mend fences with his many friends at Kansas. To say that either he or his players did not want to beat Kansas is absurd. They lost to a better team, plain and simple. Look at the way Kansas took care of Memphis, which in itself is an extremely talented team. Kansas is a deceptively deep and talented team with a championship spirit; hopefully UNC will be able to say the same thing next year
Pardon, the interruption.
Can you please ask your coach to stop thinking about us? We would hate to file a restraining order against him, but he may not leave us any choice. It is getting creepy and annoying.
Please stop Roy. I do not want to find a rabbit cooking on the stove at Allen Field House when we get back from San Antonio with our brand new trophy!
Sincerly,
KU
Part of me wishes he’d at least had on a UNC sweater (and hat!), then maybe added the Jayhawk sticker to that. But seriously, folks, he’s professed his love for Kansas over and over. Did you think that was just words? If so, then you don’t know our coach. When he cries after a major loss, he means it. It’s not just because it makes for good TV. So if he says he’s a UNC fan first and KU fan second, then why wouldn’t he support Kansas in that game? I know he just lost to them, but does he have to hate them now?
Yes, it felt weird at first, but can’t say how *proud* I felt of him for sticking by his convictions and his statements about this old school. It validates everything he used to say about Carolina, before he finally came back. The honesty and consistency is remarkable, IMO.
Amen, heels1fan!
I’m not going to lie to you – I hated the sticker, and in some ways, it still bothers me. But reading the even-handed posts (mostly) over here is making me re-think my stance a bit. I do know that at the time, my reaction was one of complete shock and then anger. I just want our coach to be wearing at least some Carolina paraphernalia when they’re going to show him in the crowd every two seconds instead of just that dumb bird sticker. The loss still hurts me and I’m sure it hurts the rest of Tar Heel nation. I’ve never had a problem with Kansas, but I sure didn’t want to see them succeed right now. So the sticker made me feel angry and I guess a bit embarrassed.
But in the end, it’s not about us – it’s about Roy, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. Roy thought it was the right thing to do; his intentions weren’t bad and he is a good man. Right or wrong, he’s going to do some things that rub the fans the wrong way (i.e. say things like ‘I’ve got more love for Carolina in my pinky than the average fan does in their body b/c it’s my life’)….and he believes in that. He believed wearing the sticker was right. It’s not always going to please us as fans.
This was just the first time that I have ever been displeased with him in this way. Maybe it’s me that has the problem. It’s something I’ve been thinking a lot about and will continue to do so. Thanks to some of you helping me process this mentally.
I know there is an undercurrent in Tar Heel Nation concerning the Kansas references that have been numerous over the five years. I know it rubbed folks the wrong way when he first came and he spoke of Kansas often and this coupled with the fact UNC lost to Kansas has set some people off. It was bad timing on his part. Let me put it this way, had UNC lost to Memphis and Roy stayed and cheered Kansas on with the bird on his shirt I think this reactions is 100 times less than it is. Some people would be tweaked but the wound of losing make it worse. In the end he should have been present and not wore anything Kansas related but he did not and as I said, his body of work at UNC, especially returning the program to the peak it was at during the Dean Smith years buys him some leeway in my book on issues like this.
CarolinaGirl, Unfortunately, it’s not about Roy. Unfortunately, he was just thinking about himself when he wore the stupid bird. First, it was about his players; was he not proud enough of his team to wear the UNC logo? Secondly, it was about us….he was not there as an individual fan, but as a representative of the university, and that’s just part of having a very public job like he does. Was it a crime? Certainly not. Is he a great guy and great coach? Absolutely. Was wearing the bird at that particular time and place a little bit bizarre and disrespectful of his players? I think so.
my head hurts a little from reading some of these. I am VERY glad Roy decided to leave Kansas in 2003 and did not turn UNC (read: Dean Smith) down again. Since UNC won a title in 2005 I am more than willing to cut him a little slack to reach his own conclusion as to where his allegiances lie.
If Roy had not returned I just shudder what kind of wilderness we might have been wandering through at this point. Just be equally glad that Dean turned aside his alma mater and chose to stay in Chapel Hill for 40 years. Goes both ways, this discussion. And oh yes, Coach Gut is also from Kansas and attended Kansas State I believe. Keep peeling the onion, folks
I didn’t have time to read all the posts, so this may be repetitive:
In the 1993 Final Four, when Roy’s Jayhawks lost to Dean’s Heels, Roy said on TV that he would be pulling for UNC in the Finals. He said he thought everybody understood why.
What’s so different now?
Final ESPN/USA Today poll released today; UNC ended the season at # 3. Smoke ’em if you got ’em…dependent on who may / may not leave and the incoming class, UNC could be top 5 pre-season in the fall.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3336130
KU was the better team this year. Roy Williams is working out his karma on a national stage. End of story. Let’s move on.
I have to say, THF, I’m glad to hear you say that he should not have been wearing it. As I said before, everyone knows that if they see Roy Williams in the stands and Kansas is on the floor, of course he’ll be pulling for the Jayhawks. But it was a bad PR move on his part with all of us here, still moving through the stages of what is really – grief – and him in the stands at the NC advertising his beloved Jayhawks. I just don’t see how he could do it so soon after our loss in the FF to KU. But, as TxTarheel said, we’re peeling the onion. Maybe Roy had moved through it all quicker than some of us. Or, maybe he’s delaying his grief for today, since he was there and had the ability to witness a NC as a fan. All I’m saying is he could have worn their colors without the logo and gotten his point across a little less blatantly.
Thanks for tackling this. Unfortunately this has torched quite a fire with some Tar Heel fans. I even heard one person say today there was a rumor about Roy going back to KU if Self bolted for OSU. Ridiculous.
My one concern is the disrespect it would seem to reflect towards his players. Forget Joe and Betty Tar Heel–Roy should be loyal to his team, first and foremost. If his players are OK with him sporting a KU logo two days after experiencing a difficult and, in many ways, humiliating defeat, then we have no business even questioning loyalty or intent. However, if it starts leaking out that the players are grumbling about it, then we have cause to take more than a quick look. Of course, if there is an internal problem that arises out of this, then we are likely to never hear about it anyway. This is not the Matt Doherty administration after all.
In the end, wearing the logo was probably not the best idea, but how important an issue is it if the Carolina players are OK with it? Roy has brought so many things to this program that it would be dangerously shortsighted to judge him by one instance where he used poor judgement. We should all lay off and spend our time wondering if Tyler and Ty and Wayne will be wearing blue and argyle in November.
Haha, I love the sound of a Dukie whistling as he walks past the graveyard…
I love the sound my mouse makes when I delete someone flaming a UNC blog because they apparently have nothing better to do with themselves.
Yes, I imagine that would be cathartic!!
THF, I am not “flaming” your blog I am simply pointing out facts. But I guess you feel that ignorance is bliss.
THF: My blog so my definition of “flaming” is the only one that applies.
Larry P., thank you for pointing that out. Very few people heard in NC how loyal Roy was to the Heels during his time in Lawrence. I live here, so I can tell you that no one in Kansas had any idea that Roy wouldn’t root for Carolina at any time except against the Hawks.
Russell, I have said before, I have seen nearly every KU game on television this year, and I have seen every Carolina game shown in this market this year, and KU was the better team on Saturday night, not this year.
Dr. Suess, if you are still reading, I told you that this was the team to fear.
BTW, the Wichita paper reports this morning that Self wants a contract extension in Lawrence, not the $10 M in Oklahoma.
Congratulations, KU. You probably won’t make it to Detroit next year, but I think we will. GO HEELS!
Misplaced Heel
As a Jayhawk fan, I thought it very odd to see Roy with the logo on his shirt and kind of affected. That didn’t make me feel better about reneging on his “I’ll be at KU ’til I’m fired or retired” pledge – stomping his good team made me feel better. I am still sore at Dean Smith and the NC AD for screwing up our chance 5 years ago – working out contract terms when Roy should have been prepping KU for the Title game. Rock Chalk Jayhawk!
No one responded to KU Nation’s post earlier. I agree with you KU Nation. I wish we could all cut ties with this relationship. KU-UNC should be bitter rivals. I do not get excited when a team starts edging closer to our accomplishments. KU, you guys are another national championship away from being superior to UNC. I very much dislike KU. Along with UCLA, Duke, Indiana, and UK.
I am a UNC alumnus, 1986, lifelong fan, game attendee for 33 years, and I attended the semis of the Final Four.
Roy non coached the Kansas game. He simply watched his team get destroyed in the first half without doing ANYTHING. No timeout, no nothing. Oh, except put Quentin Thomas in—why did he continue to play him??
What did Self do when UNC made its run?? Call at least two timeouts, settle them down and they turned it around.
I sensed that Roy didn’t mind so much since it was Kansas handing him his rear end. What a pitiful display. Then he compounds it by putting that chicken on his chest while going on national tv. Enough of the Kansas stuff already. Roy, you are the UNC coach and have been for the last 5 years. Act like it!!!
I don’t care how much he likes Kansas, his players and fans were hurting after getting beat by Kansas. Putting on a Kansas sticker 2 days later was a slap in the face.
First off, I’m a Jayhawk fan, born and bred. When I saw Roy wearing the KU sticker, my first reaction was that I hope UNC fans don’t take it the wrong way. Roy is a class act and all of UNC country should be delighted to have him as their coach. Congrats to the great year and I hope we meet on the national stage again.
Thanks, Tyler. People with your name are always welcome here, no matter who they root for! 😉
Not a problem to me. It’s a free country and you know Roy’s heart is with UNC. It’s absurd to make chicken salad out of chicken poop
Chicken poop salad does not sound very appetizing
His heart is with UNC, but his shirt is with Kansas! Go Kansas, Go Roy!!
I also don’t usually comment (although I am a longtime reader and love this blog), but I felt the need to ramble a bit now. I feel like a heel for being a Heel. No, not because Roy Williams wore a chicken sticker,,,Rather, because several UNC fanatics are showing Tar Heels to be provincial and petty with this tempest in a teapot, particularly following such a tremendous season. (Also, why would UNC fans deny their basketball roots?)
I’d like to think that I support UNC basketball not just because I and my family went to school there but because of what UNC basketball stands for–sportsmanship, emphasis on scholarship over athletics, strong work ethic, loyalty, excellence, and integrity. I’ve never been to Kansas, but I know Kansas shares those same values and that there is a lot of Chapel Hill in Lawrence. KU is where Dean Smith first learned those values (values that some top coaches (K) still only pay lip service to) before using them as the bricks and mortar to build both a dynasty and a “family.” And KU is where Roy Williams nurtured a similar tradition of excellence (which is still evident now, especially in the class and tremendous respect that Rush and other KU players showed after defeating UNC) and to learn the demands of being a head coach and head of a family.
A lot of people have questioned Roy’s loyalty due to his presence at the KU-Memphis game while wearing the now infamous KU sticker, but people are looking at this way too provincially. Roy is remaining loyal to the UNC program while also honoring the extended Carolina family at KU and the people he still cares for at KU. The people have always been more important than the basketball at UNC (which is why Dean Smith built one of the most emulated systems to ensure a high percentage of UNC players gain their degrees). Roy merely manifested that family loyalty (via his sticker) in a way that UNC fans (or most fans for that matter) are not used to. But make no mistake,,,that is what makes Roy so special.
Let’s get one thing clear. As much as I love UNC, UNC basketball is not a self-sustaining island, and it never has been. Kansas and UNC are forever linked to the greatest basketball tradition there is (Dean Smith was coached by the great Phog Allen at Kansas who was the protege of the inventor of the freaking game, Dr. Naismith). Why would UNC fans not be proud of these Kansas links, and why try to pretend we became UNC without outside (non-NC) influences? This linked heritage only makes both schools more special and makes for an even richer basketball heritage (and future). Like the UNC-State rivalry (Case and McGuire were geniuses for milking the rivalry all the way to national prominence), which brought both Tobacco Road schools more media attention, money, and star recruits, a shared heritage between KU and UNC has had a similar profoundly positive effect for both KU and UNC. Yes we strive to beat whoever we play on the court (KU or otherwise), but KU is an extension of UNC and the tradition that Dean Smith (of Kansas) built at Chapel Hill over so many years. Roy was a class act for rising above the provincial fanaticism that fans are so vulnerable to and for showing support for part of the UNC tradition (at KU).
Both schools stand for something greater than themselves, and when we get upset about a KU sticker and question the loyalties of Roy Williams, then we’ve lost sight of the bigger picture (the core values and historical pedigree that make UNC and KU basketball so special).
Go KU! Go UNC!
I think he got caught up in the moment and thought he was coaching Kansas again, thinking…”oh man…we are killing UNC”
To play devil’s advocate for one second. “I don’t question where Roy’s loyalties are” “He clearly displayed them on his shirt in Monday night’s game” Some may even say he did a better job coaching Kansas Monday night than he did UNC on Saturday. Those aren’t my thoughts, but that is the buzz going around.
Dean 22, I appreciate your thoughtful commentary that more clearly shows the underlying connections between UNC and KU. We need more posts from clear heads such as yours.